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 So this is why Jewsbychoice.org died?

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mikedoyleblogger

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PostSubject: So this is why Jewsbychoice.org died?   Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:58 pm

Avi, the former editor/owner over at the now-defunct Jewsbychoice.org site (from which many of us here are refugees), posted a comment under a very brave and thought-provoking blog post on Chaviva Galatz's Kvetching Editor blog that speaks to why the former website died. Chaviva's post (a great subject for a separate thread here) talks about her stepping back from the full strictures of Orthodoxy. In his comment, Avi says that he had a "meltdown" about his Jewish conversion earlier this year, that he no longer considers himself Jewish, and that he doesn't think he will ever identify Jewishly for the rest of his life.

You can find Avi's comment, posted as "tikkunger", here.

Seriously?
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Dena

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PostSubject: Re: So this is why Jewsbychoice.org died?   Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:45 pm

Wow. That's unfortunate and a little confusing. It's not my place to make assumptions about why he's done what he has done but I think it's very sad. It also makes converts look wishy washy, which may be why he never made it public to the forum. He avoided having his behavior connected to us which is commendable, I think.

I have a lot of struggles but I can't imagine trying to get someone to "take back" my conversion.

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Mychal

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PostSubject: Re: So this is why Jewsbychoice.org died?   Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:53 pm

I'm sorry something happened to Avi that left him so bitter about his Jewishness. Sounds like less a crisis of faith than a serious problem with other Jews.

Of course, plenty of born-Jews have problems and end up stepping away from Judaism. Some of them, though, change their minds later.
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Dena

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PostSubject: Re: So this is why Jewsbychoice.org died?   Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:11 pm

That may be while I personally have an issue with conversion resting on "faith" or the belief that Judaism is "right". I have experience with faith ebbing and flowing, evolving and changing. If your Jewish identity is wrapped up in faith and that faith wavers...where do you go?

That being said, we have no idea if Avi had a crisis of faith since he didn't say that's what happened. People choose to leave Judaism for a variety of reasons. What is confusing for me is actually denying your are Jewish. That to me would be strange. I haven't heard of many people going that route.
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mikedoyleblogger

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PostSubject: Re: So this is why Jewsbychoice.org died?   Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:57 pm

I wish Avi well. We follow our own paths, and if in someone's heart they just aren't Jewish then they aren't Jewish. Conversion will always make him part of the Jewish people, even if he chooses no longer to identify with the Jewish people. So who know what might happen someday. The tsouris was in that he took down a thriving community form, which I don't think was fair to the people he had invited to be a part of the forum in the first place. I kind of wonder how he identifies now.
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Dena

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PostSubject: Re: So this is why Jewsbychoice.org died?   Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:06 pm

mikedoyleblogger wrote:
I wish Avi well. We follow our own paths, and if in someone's heart they just aren't Jewish then they aren't Jewish. Conversion will always make him part of the Jewish people, even if he chooses no longer to identify with the Jewish people. So who know what might happen someday. The tsouris was in that he took down a thriving community form, which I don't think was fair to the people he had invited to be a part of the forum in the first place.

Yes, he could have kept it up but maybe he felt hypocritical.

mikedoyleblogger wrote:
I kind of wonder how he identifies now.

You could ask him.
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mikedoyleblogger

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PostSubject: Re: So this is why Jewsbychoice.org died?   Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:19 pm

Good point on asking him. I just wish if that's how he felt, he had given it over to another person to keep going. Anyhow, dead horse.
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Samantha

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PostSubject: Re: So this is why Jewsbychoice.org died?   Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:00 pm

What sad news. It does go to show just how much things can change. Our religious identities can alter as our lives do. It's a shame, and I really hope Avi finds the path that's right for him eventually. The problem is when proselytes leave Judaism, they have to face the fact that conversion is 100% permanent - and there's the task of having to live with the limbo that comes with being a convert who no longer believes. It must be very difficult, and I commend him for having the courage to do so.
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James

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PostSubject: Re: So this is why Jewsbychoice.org died?   Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:29 pm

Wow, I'll have to read the blog post, but it does come as a surprise. I know I was never really active on JBC, but I also was new to Judaism in general. Just about everyone there seemed pretty grounded to me.

Dena wrote:
That may be while I personally have an issue with conversion resting on "faith" or the belief that Judaism is "right". I have experience with faith ebbing and flowing, evolving and changing. If your Jewish identity is wrapped up in faith and that faith wavers...where do you go?

That being said, we have no idea if Avi had a crisis of faith since he didn't say that's what happened. People choose to leave Judaism for a variety of reasons. What is confusing for me is actually denying your are Jewish. That to me would be strange. I haven't heard of many people going that route.

I think that is a valid point, Dena.

I see my my process towards conversion more as the joining a people and less as a issue of faith. I can believe what I want with or without converting, but doing so binds me to a people. So, for me, I don't think that matters of faith will effect me as much (at least that is my hope), and I can't foresee a situation that would cause me to want to break ties with the Jewish people.

But we each do this for our own reason.
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Dena

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PostSubject: Re: So this is why Jewsbychoice.org died?   Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:50 pm

James wrote:


I see my my process towards conversion more as the joining a people and less as a issue of faith.

I did too. It's nice to hear I am not the only one. Not that the religious aspects didn't play a part, of course they did...and do everyday.
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