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PostSubject: Jews for Hashem - Jeff Neckonoff   Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:43 am

This isn't a topic of interest for everyone but if you are interested in counter-missionary efforts here is a site by Jeff Neckonoff who was a "Messianic" Jew for six years. It includes his story and many links to counter missionary sites like Rabbi Singer's Outreach Judaism.

Jews for Hashem
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http://www.jewishbychoice.org
Bee

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PostSubject: Re: Jews for Hashem - Jeff Neckonoff   Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:44 am

I left messianic movement because of Tovia...he was so into bringing back his sisters and brothers from J4J's that he did not even consider that his books would bring about an exodus of gentile believers. He has another book coming out soon.
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PostSubject: Re: Jews for Hashem - Jeff Neckonoff   Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:49 pm

I've listened to all of Rabbi Singer's lectures (free d/l on SimpletoRemember.com), and they're AWESOME. I had already decided to convert from Christianity to Judaism when I found him, but his Bible studies just supported, with fact, my feelings of distrust for Christian dogma--that there wasn't something quite kosher about it (lol--I made a funny).

I've got them under my belt (and ready to listen to again) should my mother assail me with Bible quotes when I tell her that I'm converting. Although she's practically a Hebrew Christian now--she got a mezzuzah AND a tallit before me. I'm starting to wonder if I put her on Rabbi Singer if I can push her over to Judaism completely. Probably not; she has spoken in tongues before and she's becoming obssessed with escatology.
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PostSubject: Re: Jews for Hashem - Jeff Neckonoff   Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:36 pm

Tovia Facebooked that he improved his website and to check it out..he said its taken him 3 years to upgraded.
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PostSubject: Re: Jews for Hashem - Jeff Neckonoff   Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:51 pm

Mychal wrote:

I've got them under my belt (and ready to listen to again) should my mother assail me with Bible quotes when I tell her that I'm converting. Although she's practically a Hebrew Christian now--she got a mezzuzah AND a tallit before me. I'm starting to wonder if I put her on Rabbi Singer if I can push her over to Judaism completely. Probably not; she has spoken in tongues before and she's becoming obsessed with escatology.

If I were you I would tread very lightly. You are not obligated to have Biblical debates with your mother.





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PostSubject: Re: Jews for Hashem - Jeff Neckonoff   Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:05 am

I know we are not Dena, but it will not stop family from trying. My tight circle of friends whom I have been dodging right now because I have grown feathers and now laying eggs..are not the type to accept it and move on. Anytime any of us ladies in this members only circle has had issues or religious disputes, we have sat down and prayed together, opened our bibles, hashed it out until we came to an agreeable conclusion. We kept a pack for 12 years now, eventhough I moved to Texas, they visit because its a sisterhood. The inquisition has begun, our fearless leader has called me since Friday...like I said, I recently grew feathers. She started to get me to say stuff about jc and Beth Moore, all I could say was that I loved her and if she knew that and will our friendship have an end ...then she went on again about the blessed assurance thing so I said I had to go, was grocery shopping . (Didn't mention for shabbat) Since that day its been phone tag and I am still it, but those.tough questions are coming and I know I need to have anwers.
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PostSubject: Re: Jews for Hashem - Jeff Neckonoff   Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:31 am

Bee, you're in a difficult position. On one hand I can see where you would like to engage in conversation with your friends because that is what you have always done. Biblical discussion and prayer may have been the foundation of your friendships. Now that you are on the other side it's going to be very difficult for them to accept and there is no hashing it out until you agree. Of course I do not know your friends but in some cases trying to have a rational conversation about it may just blow up in your face. You could, if you think it would work with your friends, send out a letter. That way you could do a bit of explaining without being interrupted, without someone trying to argue with you, without feeling attacked, etc. It also gives them a little time to digest information then if they have questions you can answer them. You can choose if you want to get into a deep discussion or just say "I am sorry but I am not going to discuss this with you right now".
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PostSubject: Re: Jews for Hashem - Jeff Neckonoff   Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:26 am

Huh, what a nice answer. I like that idea, I was just going to avoid them and send them post cards. I love them very much and got scared because my texan friends did not take it too well. I always saw my close friends growing old with me and we all have made plans to make our own red hat society when we hit that age. Religion has been each others glue, I don't know how not to be xtian out there in the life that we built. These girls would take a bullet for me, I wonder if it will change. I should write a letter even if its just for me...it will help practicing explaining ...actually I have no clue. My heart goes out to all of the converts and their struggle. I am just beginning mine and I am a hot mess. My only clarity and unchanged constant is Hashem and my Torahs studies. It keeps me focused and grounded. I just wish I could share it and if it wasn't for Jewish forums ..who would I talk to or relate?
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PostSubject: Re: Jews for Hashem - Jeff Neckonoff   Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:59 pm

Having a rational conversation always means that the other side has to be rational. And from comments by Messianic Christians on Jeff Neckonoff's site, it's clear that some people can be bludgeoned over the head with rational and they still refuse to see it. I mean, the other day, my mother tried to use Revelations as proof that Jesus wouldn't fulfill the Messianic mission until a certain time in the future. You can't use your own scripture to support your own scripture; philosophically invalid argument.
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PostSubject: Re: Jews for Hashem - Jeff Neckonoff   Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:55 pm

Heeeeeheee...that's why im struggling. I don't want to ruin anyones bubble so i am avoiding any conversations about scriptures. I can't believe how I came to the rational. I was a super xtian as they come...oooo the stories and praying in tongues...casting out demons...what the heck was I doing???
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PostSubject: Re: Jews for Hashem - Jeff Neckonoff   Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:26 pm

Bee wrote:
Heeeeeheee...that's why im struggling. I don't want to ruin anyones bubble so i am avoiding any conversations about scriptures. I can't believe how I came to the rational. I was a super xtian as they come...oooo the stories and praying in tongues...casting out demons...what the heck was I doing???

Many people who convert were not religious prior to Judaism. Others however were very religious and I think it's normal to wonder "what on earth was I thinking!!?" Sometimes you may feel embarrassed, angry or sad. You may wonder how you can be so different now then you were then. It takes some time to adjust. But hey, we all do things we regret later or at least wonder why we did or believed. We're older now and wiser. Wink and Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Jews for Hashem - Jeff Neckonoff   Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:33 pm

Bee, a couple of my friends come from the same type of background. Charismatic I suppose you could call it. I thought me being Jewish might be an issue with them but so far it isn't. We just keep on going the same as before because we genuinely like each other as people and respect the differences. Hopefully none of them are lying awake a night wondering if I'm going to burn in hell. So far nobody has mentioned it. Of course, I'm not sure they understand what it means to be Jewish either. We haven't had any of those Biblical debates aside from me telling a friend I don't believe in hell and Jesus isn't my savior. She was completely weirded out by it but hasn't mentioned it again. We've waded through some serious ups and down, her and I, so I think we'll be fine. You never really know how people will act. Some people will surprise you.
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PostSubject: Re: Jews for Hashem - Jeff Neckonoff   Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:35 pm

Working on the wiser part, got the older, double wide thing going for me...but yeah I get ya.
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PostSubject: Re: Jews for Hashem - Jeff Neckonoff   Mon Jan 16, 2012 3:33 pm

Dena,

I like your insight a lot.

E ~
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