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Dena

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PostSubject: Crock Pot Liners   Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:00 pm

If I use those plastic crock pot liners could I feasible keep my crock pot bowl rather than replace it with a new one? I know they can't be kashered but it occurred to me maybe I could use those? Not sure?
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rakhel



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PostSubject: Re: Crock Pot Liners   Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:14 pm

I may not word this right, so bare with...
Are you asking because you make unkosher meals in it or are you asking because you are trying to just use one crock pot? In stead of buying 3? one for meat, one for dairy and one for parve?

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Dena

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PostSubject: Re: Crock Pot Liners   Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:46 pm

I am asking because I had it previously so it's not "kosher". I want to just keep it for a while and use the liners. I never really use it but I know it was used once for non-kosher meat. I'd like to start using it again with the liners. It would probably be used for meat but yes, I would like to use it for the others too...maybe.

Eventually, I will need a new one but I'm thinking I could make due for now?
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rakhel



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PostSubject: Re: Crock Pot Liners   Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:58 pm

I don't know the answer to that one. My crock pot has always been a meat pot with the exception of bean soup. I haven't been able to figure out how to do dairy in a crock pot with out it burning, so buying another one has never been an issue for me. And I'm not entirely sure if I need two.

I do "cheat" with my baking pans, though. I use aluminum foil. It's cheaper on me, right now, then it would be for me to buy 3 sets of baking and cooking wear. It may not be entirely kosher, but my family isn't too strict on the matter.

So, I guess, until you get an answer, you could use the liners. They are providing a barrier. But then the question arises, what if, like the aluminum foil, the liners tear?
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Dena

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PostSubject: Re: Crock Pot Liners   Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:14 pm

I was trying to use aluminum foil in a baking dish too..and it tore. I started using layers but juice still leaks so whatever. I need another dish. I thought with the liners I would use two at a time. See how that works. I've never used them so I don't know how they hold up. I hate to use something that gets thrown away but I really doubt I will use the crock pot all that much. I've been married 5 years and so far I've used it once. So even if I increase it's usage, I won't be throwing away that many liners.
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Debbie B.

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PostSubject: Re: Crock Pot Liners   Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:39 pm

"Kosher" is not actually a Yes or No state. Or at least there is food that might be "kosher" to one person that another Jew who goes by stricter rules would not eat (i.e. insisting on Glatt beef or milk that is "halav Yisrael", etc). So it all depends on what you mean by "kosher" and who will be eating the food and what matters to them. Most of the rules specifying how Jews observe kashrut today is rabbinic rather than from the Torah.

I'm assuming that the ceramic part of the crockpot is completely treif, by having been used to cook non-kosher meat both meat and dairy (even if not at the same time). If it has a pyrex lid, then if you take the lenient view of pyrex being glass, then it can be kashered with boiling water. Now if you use a plastic liner, then the food does not directly touch the ceramic. But direct contact is not the only thing forbidden in kosher cooking. For example, you may not cook a dairy dish in an oven at the same time that a meat dish is cooking because of the idea that the dairy and meat flavors will be carried by the steam and contaminate the other dish. So you might have a similar problem with your treif crockpot. And if the liner gets a tiny tear, now you have to decide whether the whole pot of food is OK or not. I suppose you could use the analogy of a drop of milk falling into a meat soup----there are lots of complicated rules based on how much and whether it only touches the pot above the soup level or goes right into the soup, etc, etc. But the problem is that you can't tell if the liner is intact until you empty out the food and take the liner out of the crock. Until then, you could only be "safe" by using disposable utensils and putting the food into a disposable container, or kasherable bowl (pyrex or metal). Really not too practical.

If you keep a strictly kosher kitchen, you really shouldn't keep treif cookware because then theoretically you could treif up your kosher dishes and utensils by serving treif food on them. If you actually keep full sets of separate meat and dairy cookware, dishes, and utensils, then get a new crockpot.

But assuming that you don't keep separate cookware, dishes, etc, then using a liner in the crockpot might make the food "kosher enough" for some kosher-observant guests who relax rules outside their own homes. You'd have to ask directly about it though. And I'm thinking that the folks who would be OK with the crockpot liner, would probably not mind if you just used the crockpot directly (if the ingredients of the food are kosher) since they might be like many of our observant friends who keep very strictly kosher kitchens in their own homes, but will eat food cooked in non-kosher cookware as long as the ingredients are kosher at non-kosher restaurants or friends homes. The terminology is that these folks "eat dairy out". (I'm one of those myself.) We have other (mainly Orthodox) friends, however, who won't eat any food that is cooked in non-kosher cookware. For strict kashrut people like that, using a liner in a non-kosher crockpot is probably not OK.

Also, I think you need to replace the whole crockpot, not just the pot, due to the fact that the hot metal heating part almost certainly got food dripped onto it when it was hot, so it is "treif" too and probably can't be kashered.

A crockpot is an easy way to make a hot Shabbat lunch without doing any forbidden cooking on Shabbat. The food just has to be at least half-cooked or "edible" when Shabbat starts. I make meat or veggie cholents and meat or veggie chilis in my crockpots. I have usually make my veggie chili in my dairy crockpot so that I can serve it at a dairy meal with grated cheese to sprinkle on top. If I have a main dish in the hot crockpot, then I use it to re-warm a pan of rice or kasha on Shabbat by removing the glass lid and covering the top with aluminum foil. Then I place a metal or pyrex pan with the rice or kasha also covered with foil on top of the crockpot. The sides of the hot crockpot conduct heat to the pan. I set this up before going to shul and it will be nice and warm by lunch when we get home. Works like a "blech".
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Dena

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PostSubject: Re: Crock Pot Liners   Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:50 pm

Debbie B. wrote:
So it all depends on what you mean by "kosher" and who will be eating the food and what matters to them.

Just me.

Debbie B. wrote:
I'm assuming that the ceramic part of the crockpot is completely treif, by having been used to cook non-kosher meat

Exactly.

Debbie B. wrote:
If you keep a strictly kosher kitchen, you really shouldn't keep treif cookware because then theoretically you could treif up your kosher dishes and utensils by serving treif food on them. If you actually keep full sets of separate meat and dairy cookware, dishes, and utensils, then get a new crockpot.

Nothing has been kashered yet hence why I thought I could make do now. I have almost all separate dishes and utensils but they haven't been yet kashered either (I'll have to toss out a few things and replace them too. I have an ongoing list). So I figured maybe I could just wait for a new ceramic dish as long as I use the liners. Double liners, actually. When I'm in a position to have everything all set, then I will need a new ceramic pot.

Debbie B. wrote:
But assuming that you don't keep separate cookware, dishes, etc, then using a liner in the crockpot might make the food "kosher enough" for some kosher-observant guests who relax rules outside their own homes. You'd have to ask directly about it though. And I'm thinking that the folks who would be OK with the crockpot liner, would probably not mind if you just used the crockpot directly (if the ingredients of the food are kosher) since they might be like many of our observant friends who keep very strictly kosher kitchens in their own homes, but will eat food cooked in non-kosher cookware as long as the ingredients are kosher at non-kosher restaurants or friends homes. The terminology is that these folks "eat dairy out". (I'm one of those myself.) We have other (mainly Orthodox) friends, however, who won't eat any food that is cooked in non-kosher cookware. For strict kashrut people like that, using a liner in a non-kosher crockpot is probably not OK.

It's really just about what works for me at this point. I won't use the ceramic dish if it's not lined nor would I use it for both meat and dairy without it at least being lined. I wasn't sure how the rules of kashrut would apply.

Debbie B. wrote:
Also, I think you need to replace the whole crockpot, not just the pot, due to the fact that the hot metal heating part almost certainly got food dripped onto it when it was hot, so it is "treif" too and probably can't be kashered.

Hmm. I hadn't thought about that since it's only been used once or twice. If I am going to need the entire thing I'll get one with more settings.

Debbie B. wrote:
A crockpot is an easy way to make a hot Shabbat lunch without doing any forbidden cooking on Shabbat. The food just has to be at least half-cooked or "edible" when Shabbat starts. I make meat or veggie cholents and meat or veggie chilis in my crockpots.

Which is one of the reasons I keep telling myself I need to learn to use it. I do have another small crock pot that has never been used or washed. I've already decided I won't be using it for meat.

Debbie B. wrote:
I have usually make my veggie chili in my dairy crockpot so that I can serve it at a dairy meal with grated cheese to sprinkle on top.

Do you have a recipe? Wink and Smile

Debbie B. wrote:
If I have a main dish in the hot crockpot, then I use it to re-warm a pan of rice or kasha on Shabbat by removing the glass lid and covering the top with aluminum foil. Then I place a metal or pyrex pan with the rice or kasha also covered with foil on top of the crockpot. The sides of the hot crockpot conduct heat to the pan. I set this up before going to shul and it will be nice and warm by lunch when we get home. Works like a "blech".

That's a good idea. I wouldn't have thought about doing something like that. Thanks for sharing. The whole idea of a blech makes me nervous. I don't think I'll ever own one.
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Debbie B.

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PostSubject: Re: Crock Pot Liners   Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:32 am

I use the chili recipe from a very old Sunset Vegetarian cookbook. But a quick Google search shows that someone typed in a recipe with that name that is similar available at this link:
http://recipes.sparkpeople.com/recipe-detail.asp?recipe=551294

Differences:
4 large onions (more than in above recipe)
1 large green pepper
1 T chili powder
only 1 t cocoa
1/4 t cinnamon
1 t cumin seeds
plain canned tomatoes (no chilies)
3 cans beans (or 5 cups cooked + 1.5 c cooking liquid or water)
[I usually use three different kinds of beans from the following: white, red, pink kidney, pinto, black

The cocoa and cinnamon are key, so maybe I'll try putting in more the next time I make this.

I just toss in everything into the crockpot without cooking first since it will cook so long that it will all get nicely browned and carmelized anyway. I set it on high until it starts to boil or Shabbat starts, then turn it to low for overnight cooking. My meat crockpot has an "auto setting" that switches from high to low, but my dairy crockpot is very cheap and just has high, low, and warm. I kind of regret not getting a bigger dairy crockpot, but I didn't want to have to figure out where to store it.

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Dena

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PostSubject: Re: Crock Pot Liners   Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:35 am

Thanks, Debbie. I'm all for onions, the more the merrier. How long can you leave that in the crockpot on low before it gets gross or burns? As long as you'd like?
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Debbie B.

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PostSubject: Re: Crock Pot Liners   Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:45 am

Quote :
Nothing has been kashered yet hence why I thought I could make do now. I have almost all separate dishes and utensils but they haven't been yet kashered either (I'll have to toss out a few things and replace them too. I have an ongoing list).

Does that mean that your dishes are either glass or Corelle (which is a kind of glass)? Ceramic dishes can't be kashered. So if you put food that has been cooked in non-kosher cookware (and is thus technically "treif") on ceramic dishes, the dishes are now permanently treif.

One exception is that very expensive and/or heirloom china that is glazed can be left unused for a full year and then, possibly with a dip in boiling water, can be considered to be kosher. And before being used again, can be designated as meat, dairy (or pareve), and even kosher for Pesach. When I made our kitchen strictly kosher, that's what we did with our fine china, most of which was received as wedding gifts and added to over the years so that we have 16 full settings with soup plates and numerous serving pieces. Probably over a couple thousand dollars in replacement value.
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Debbie B.

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PostSubject: Re: Crock Pot Liners   Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:49 am

Dena Nechama wrote:
Thanks, Debbie. I'm all for onions, the more the merrier. How long can you leave that in the crockpot on low before it gets gross or burns? As long as you'd like?

From the beginning of Shabbat until lunch the next day is fine, with possibly just a bit of burning at the bottom. As I mentioned, the long cooking is what gives it the best flavor. You should remove the ceramic pot before serving according to some very strict ways of observing Shabbat, and you'd want to take it off the heat by then anyway.
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PostSubject: Re: Crock Pot Liners   Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:58 am

Debbie B. wrote:

Does that mean that your dishes are either glass or Corelle (which is a kind of glass)?

Yes. I took my ceramic dishes to Goodwill. I still have a few bowls I am waiting to replace then once those are gone I should be about set. I was able to find 30 pieces of Corelle very very cheap. I'm still looking for a few more. I bought them intentionally because I was told they could be kashered and even if not, they were so cheap I wouldn't be out much money.
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Dena

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PostSubject: Re: Crock Pot Liners   Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:01 am

Debbie B. wrote:
Dena Nechama wrote:
Thanks, Debbie. I'm all for onions, the more the merrier. How long can you leave that in the crockpot on low before it gets gross or burns? As long as you'd like?

From the beginning of Shabbat until lunch the next day is fine, with possibly just a bit of burning at the bottom. As I mentioned, the long cooking is what gives it the best flavor. You should remove the ceramic pot before serving according to some very strict ways of observing Shabbat, and you'd want to take it off the heat by then anyway.

Now excuse me while I ask you a silly question. Do you just leave your crockpot plugged in, on and empty the rest of the day? I was thinking I could buy a crockpot that turns itself off (similar to switching itself from low to high) but I'm not 100% sure if that's possible. For now my husband could go behind me an unplug it. Wink and Smile
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rakhel



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PostSubject: Re: Crock Pot Liners   Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:41 am

I leave mine plugged in all day and night, leaving it on warm, which the lowest of my settings(it only has 3)
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Debbie B.

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PostSubject: Re: Crock Pot Liners   Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:25 am

You can also use an outlet timer to turn off the power to the crockpot after lunchtime.
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Dena

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PostSubject: Re: Crock Pot Liners   Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:46 am

Debbie B. wrote:
You can also use an outlet timer to turn off the power to the crockpot after lunchtime.

Yes, that's true.
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PostSubject: Re: Crock Pot Liners   Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:29 pm

Okay, my crockpot does have some sort of timer. I haven't played around with it yet but I plan to do that tomorrow, probably.
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PostSubject: Re: Crock Pot Liners   Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:31 pm

I also noticed on Torah.org that some Rabbis have ruled crockpots that go inside the heating element cannot be used on Shabbat. I actually didn't know there were other types but they say the crockpot that only sits on top of a heating element can be used. Doesn't change anything for me I just thought it was interesting as I had never heard that nor did have I ever seen that type of crockpot.
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